Recently I had a conversation with a friend of mine who seems to be deeply involved with religion or at least deeply involved with what the Bible says and how he interprets it. This is always tender ground.
Most people know...you don't talk about religion or politics or finances...cause it's not polite and you may make someone uncomfortable with what they believe in.
Belief Systems or (BS) (not surprisingly abbreviated) are not easy to let go of...I'm currently holding on to a few of my own that aren't serving, but you do what you do until such a time as you are able to let them go...naturally let them go, because they aren't serving you or anyone else.
The thing is sometimes people will fight to the bitter end to be right instead of happy...because they have so much invested in the BS...like if I put this down now what will people think after I have been telling everyone how good it is ... how it has helped me and now I am just going to let it go...I will look terrible and so you just keep going on...trying harder and harder to prove that what you are doing is right. You won't look at anything that might put any doubt in your mind because then you will have to let go and be seen for the phony you are beginning to see that you are...and just admit that there is a possibility that you have been wrong.
It's easy to say all of that but think of something that you really believe in and then tell yourself you are wrong about it. Maybe it is something you believe about how people should behave or what they should eat or anything...make it something hard...something that really "means" something to you and see if you have it in you to be willing to be wrong.
Life cannot show us other ways of seeing things and hearing things and knowing things...if we are already certain that the way we have it...is the way it is. There has to be some willingness to be wrong...ultimately to be wrong about everything...to See what really IS.
Well now this is a very long introduction to a very long conversation...still it is worth reading and it took being wrong about a lot of things to be able to hear what was shared below and what was written above sure just seemed to open some doors within so I am very grateful for all that is being shared.
Ultimately, even "right and wrong" are just a Belief System (BS) too :o)
T: Paul the Apostle gives his young disciple Timothy a final exhortation before his death at the hands of Nero (Emperor of Rome at the time) concerning the ministry God had entrusted him with. 2Timothy 4:1, "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom." Above all things in life Timothy, understand this:
1. Nothing is more important then doing the will of God. The Trinity is always watching over the lives of men. Jesus said, "Every word a man shall speak he will give account in the day of judgment."
2. There will no doubt be an appearing of Jesus Christ.
3. There is a kingdom coming that people will obtain or miss out on. Don't settle for the world's temporary moments of pleasure. Do the will of God now and you will be blessed both in this world and the world to come. Keep one foot in the world now and you'll be in hell with both.
Mat 18:8, "Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot (cause thee to sin) offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire."
J: I don't understand how speaking words of fear offer one a full life. If there is God’s Will then isn't it all God’s will? How could there be some and not all? Have you asked these questions?
I would much rather hear God’s words through you than through something that has been edited and changed 100s if not thousands of times over the last 2000 years many times used to control the masses into doing what the rulers of the time wanted accomplished. I am not downing the Bible either it does have many good pointings. What I am more interested in though is how your life is being lived anyone can post a quote about anything what do you have to share from you?
T: you made some interesting points. I do believe God's will is ultimately being fulfilled everyday as He has planned yet He has commanded people to conform to his image in holiness and righteousness which can only be obtained through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. I don't know who told you the Bible has been changed over the past 2000 years but I can tell you I did some homework on the subject. It has not been altered. We have thousands of manuscripts that get us back to the originals. It has been fully preserved as God has promised. People have attempted to discredit it to no avail. God is willing to forgive our sins when ask Him with all our heart.
J: What if I told you that the word "sin" is a lie and only humans believe in forgiveness but god is not human and so a human cannot understand the infinite patience of the one who waits for those that still believe there is something to forgive.
T: I didn't mention it last night but it is really good to hear from you and hope everyone is doing well.
To answer your first comment, "Sin is a lie and only humans believe in forgiveness." Sin is a transgression of God's moral law. If there was no sin, it being a lie, than no one would ever have to forgive anyone for anything because there would never be a wrong since there is no right.
God has written His law on each of our hearts through our conscience. Rom 2:15, "Which shrew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness." Here are some of the Ten Commandments 5-10. 5. Children honor your mother and father. 6. Thou shalt not kill. 7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. 8. Thou shalt not steal. 9. Thou shalt not lie. 10. Thou shalt not covet. You don't need a Bible to tell you these things are wrong because God has written it on our hearts. In Exodus 34:6 God emphatically declares He will not let the guilty go free. Exodus 34:7, "Will by no means clear the guilty." Have you broken God's Ten Commandments? No one has ever kept these commandments to perfection therefore everyone is guilty before God and will be found guilty at the Day of Judgment. Mat 12:36, "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." By God's goodness, righteousness, and justice we (me included) all stand condemned before the Holy God of heaven because of transgressing his moral law.
When I came to realize this deep in my heart in 2003 I went to Jesus Christ in full repentance. The Scriptures declare that He died for sinners in their place, taking their punishment fully on the cross and God rose Him up three days after His death putting His stamp of approval on His atoning death and resurrection (Read Romans chapters 5-6). The whole Bible concerning man is summed up in this one verse. Isa 55:7, "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon."
J: You said; "Sin is a transgression of God's moral law. If there was no sin, it being a lie, than no one would ever have to forgive anyone for anything because there would never be a wrong since there is no right.” What you just shared...that is it in a nut shell...they say that it is the simplest things in life that are overlooked...and you have just overlooked the simplest eradication of the concept of "sin and forgiveness."
We are born empty of all these concepts ... a child doesn't need forgiveness to live...isn't it in the Bible to "become like little children" when you were a child...you didn't need forgiveness ... when you fought with a friend...let's use M...when you fought with M...did you need to forgive him to start playing with him again for did you just drop the whole thing and just start playing?
Forgiven is just another way to say "I am better than you...and I have power over you...and if you don't do what I want and make amends in the way I see fit then I won't play with you anymore or worse...I will kill you."
That is just control...if you really take a look at what you are saying...then there is no way to ever be forgiven...you speak of the Ten Commandments...did you need those when you were a child (can you see why those commandments were made...not for the little children but to control the masses ... who if any stepped out of line...would be killed (irony) which still happens in this world today...the commandment has not worked people do what they do and then we (not god) make judgments about it...and even though it hasn't worked it is still used over and over again as the only way to solve the problem...that is the crazy thing ... not with the Bible...but the religions built around it... is how we solve problems we just kill the person that is different from us...that doesn't do what we want or say what we want to hear...can you see how crazy that is?)
And it doesn't say in the Ten Commandments "thou shall not kill humans" It says "thou shall not kill (period)" But how convenient that people overlook that they "sin" in every meal...don't you (your words not mine I don't believe in sin)? Just because you don't go out and slaughter (which is a sin according to the commandments) your own meal doesn't mean you are responsible and by your standards accountable for its death. So do I sit there every day and say...I forgive you for killing again...or do you say a prayer before every meal saying "dear father please forgive me for this sin I am about to make).
Forgiveness is just a way to control and feel like I one is better than another. And I know nobody likes to have their beliefs challenged...but really all you need is a little willingness to not just quote some more texts but look for yourself...really look at your belief system (BS) By your standards..M is not in Heaven...and I am not going to your Heaven either...can you look at that honestly...why would you keep me and M out of Heaven and if you say "well i am not doing it Jesus is" Why would Jesus keep me out of heaven?
I think Jesus...if I was around in his time...would actually like me...probably think I had some pretty good ways of saying the same thing he was Pointing to...that the Kingdom of Heaven is in you and you are in It.
Yes it will be experienced when the body drops...but "you" won't get to experience it...because "you" will be going back to who you already Are. There is the opportunity to Know this while you are in the body.
You can begin by asking yourself...not the church not a book...but yourSelf...Who am I? If I am not the body, if I am not my name...then who am I? Who Dies? Who was Born? All questions are in avoidance of this one question...it is not ever how or why...it is always "who?" And I know that you know this cause I can tell that you had an Awakening experience and that can be scary and lead one to Religion for the answers...but religion can only take you so far...then you must begin a Self investigation...if you cling to beliefs (BS)/religion because you are scared that you don't actually know who you Are...then you will find out when the body dies...but I am sharing with you that you don't have to wait and you don't have to fear death...because who you Are...isn't born and doesn't die and you "you, who you think you are...are in That."
T: I don't believe I am better than anyone else, I didn't mean it that way because I am not.
I am saved from my sin because I have received God's forgiveness through His only Son who died for me and took the penalty that I deserve. You forgive because it's in your conscience to forgive. To not forgive would be wrong.
I quote the Bible because I believe without a shadow of a doubt that it is the Word of God. It's up to you to accept that or to not accept it. God proved the Bible true when He raised Christ out of the grave. Jesus in John 14:6 stated that He was the truth and the life and no man will come to God without knowing Him as Savior. God exposed my sin through the law and that drove me to Jesus Christ. God is loving and willing to forgive all those who come to Jesus by faith.
My belief system is backed up by historical facts and a living Jesus that I know personally, not a religion. The creation itself declares God's glory and manifest His holiness. He continues to work through His church to this current date. Many are being saved and coming to know the Creator that brought them from dust.
Allow me to share some verses that deal with what you're saying. Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
J: I thought I would let a few days go by and sort of process our conversation and see what came up. That we did just go back and forth in some kind of debate which is what usually happens when one whips out a book and uses it and not one’s own experience to share what has been received in life.
I think there are some things that maybe you are afraid to look at...and I know this because I have been afraid too...I have clung to a book having the answers to every question and yet inside was filled with fear about losing...everything...which is what does happen in this world...we lose everything, ultimately.
Certainly for me the death of my father, mother and M were huge in seeing that you don't get to keep anything or anyone...but then that grew and I began to see that I cannot even keep myself and that led to the question...if I will lose me..."Who am I?"
For years...seriously for years...I kept this one question in the forefront of my mind...because life would tell me .. .you are a mother...but if that is true it cannot be taken away and I watched as Mikey grew up and now Tyler and that role is not as prevalent as it once was and also if they both died I wouldn't be one...so that statement was a lie...then the mind/thoughts said... you are a woman...but I found that isn't true because I could actually have a sex change and change the body completely...so if the body can be changed...then I am not a woman either and then it said ... well you are the body...but I began to question that too because M wasn't the body...I saw his body after he died...I sat with my Mother while she died and neither of them were the body...they weren't their name...they weren't all the things that I had told them they were...so what is the body in? That kept the question going...if I am not the body...then "who am I?"
No one can tell you...you have to ask for yourself and as you begin to find out who you Are...you begin to know who everyone is. Life becomes fearless...because you don't fear yourSelf.
T: I understand to some degree what you going through. We all go through trials and tribulations in this life. It is indeed full of problems. I can tell you that I am not afraid to die
J: I have cut and pasted your writing so that I can comment on what you are sharing. And I can agree with what you say above…in that I don’t hear that you are afraid to die…I hear that you are afraid live and all your quotes are to keep you in line so that you don’t do something that might get you in trouble in some “next” life … when you are too afraid to live in this life…to just be who you are…without protection of some imaginary playmate.
I do know this is hard to hear…it’s just like when our parents told us there is no Santa Claus that they were it…I am sharing with you that there is no “Jesus/Santa Claus” (and talk about being willing to die…there are people that would call that blasphemy and kill me in Jesus’ name to prove that they are right and then can be saved by Jesus by just confessing their sins and taking him into their heart).
What animated “Jesus” (if there ever really was one and I am not about to go down that road of proving or not proving that he lived…that is not the point…if he did live then let’s look where he was pointing while he was alive…he was not living from a book…he lived his life against all the populous…he was an outcast, a renegade and rebel and “supposedly” was murdered by people that wanted to shut him up (maybe he was saying things that went against the religion of his time…kind of like Now) and why did they want to shut him up…because he was telling people that what is in him…is in them…and in knowing that…it was taking the power away from the churches and rulers of that time (see any differences today…except that now they are using his name “jesus” name to make money and to control people…if anything…if Jesus is real…then he is the biggest failure of all time…all these wars over religion and beliefs and it’s just crazy…nobody heard him…well maybe few ;o)
Ok got off track there…but what animated Jesus…if there was one … is the same thing that animates you and I and that is where the great Teachings Point…they point one back to theirSelf. So this is someone (me) that has been given the News that there is no Santa Claus/Jesus…and that I had to put that belief system (BS) down because it had stopped Serving the Truth and was now serving to cause fear in people that are already afraid in this life and now have another life (heaven) to be afraid of (WTF).
T: If I was an Atheist then I would live my life to the fullest believing that this world where living in now is it and then lights out.
J: I am not an atheist…because that is just another religion…but I almost wish you were an Atheist… so that you could live your life to the fullest believing that this world we are living in is NOW and it is then lights out…that’s it…no more you…you go back to the Nothing…No Thing that you were prior to birth.
But let’s not worry about the lights out part (since we are not afraid of that part and it will come soon enough)…let’s talk about the NOW…which is here…right NOW…you don’t have to anything to be right NOW. You are perfect in this moment right NOW and I know this because I know you and there is nothing you could tell me in this world that could change that…I may not like it…I may not like things you do or don’t do…but doesn’t change who you Are. I know what is behind all the stories you tell about yourself because there is a Realization in me…of what all of that appears In. Knowing it doesn’t change anything…it doesn’t make the world a better place because the world is good enough right NOW. The only thing that says it isn’t are thoughts about it. We cannot usurp the power of God because everything is God’s Will…including this conversation and the reaction you have and the reaction I have. However…maybe we can offer some Light to one another…you know Lighten the load :o).
T: That would be OK if I believed that because when I died then I would never know it anyway.
J: Yes …do you remember your past life? Do you think that Heaven has 200000000000000000000 billon dead people hanging out saying isn’t Heaven grand? This is what I mean about Santa Claus…we become blinded by what we want and not what actually is…you are In God…there is no out.
T: I don't believe that.
J: Yes …but it is not serving you to not know it.
T: You call the Bibles "Some book" and if you feel that way you won't desire to know who God is.
J: God is not Known by a book although you can be pointed towards It by a Book so I am not knocking books…I am just saying they can only take you so far and it sounds to me like you have gone as far as you can go with yours. God is in this world…but not of it. There is a saying that we are like fish in a fish bowl…going “water water…where is the water.” God is the Water and we are in It and no one has exclusive rights.
T: Sometimes where taught to view things and interpret things without a full investigation. We take comments from people we know or may not know that call the Bible "Some book" when in reality they have never come to know Christ nor have they gave a good case for refuting it's claims to be the revealed will of God.
J: Words are tough to use because they have so many interpretations for each one and it also depends on the life experiences you have had…just like the word Love/God/Truth/Jesus/Confucius/Buddha…all those words have meanings to people…so I could say to you that I have been pointed to Christ Consciousness…but it is not about a man…maybe about where a man pointed…but he could only point and the one he pointed to…would have to look for their self.
T: Is it impossible that God would reveal His will to man through the writing of several authors? Not one claim the Bible makes has anyone ever been able to refute or reveal error. It is completely reliable concerning history, archeology, science, and witness attestation. There is an all powerful God in heaven who made the earth we live in. He is infinitely wise and righteous in all His works. He created you and He cares about you.
J: Okay this is not about debating a book…let’s just say that it has been very helpful to you up until this point…just like other wonder filled books even before the Bibles time that were written by other authors with no less validity than the ones you are speaking of)…but at this point you are now becoming a preacher of that book and a preacher of fear.
As far as I know…Jesus didn’t preach fear…from what I have heard he would say “go and sin (miss the M is what I have been told sin means) no more” not go and repent and pay the church and here’s a good book go read it”…I don’t recall that being what Jesus said at the time…what I understood (since no one at that time had died for his mistakes) from what people have told me is that he would say “go and sin no more” so he was pretty much saying “yeah yeah I hear you…you f’d up…and it seems to be bugging you…so don’t do that…and clean up your mess if you can.”
He didn’t say you will burn in hell for all eternity … shit the way it appears sometimes…you would think we already are in hell…but I don’t watch the news much so I stay in Heaven just about all the time…and Heaven has everything in it…it has love and pain and sex and fighting and tenderness and hugs and bruises…it has everything in it…it is not floating on some cloud with the 20000000000000 billion others that Jesus died for.
And I am saying in hopes that you will see it and begin to know that you don’t need anyone’s approval to be who you Are…you already are who you Are and I like you…or I wouldn’t be taking so much time to share all of this with you and I imagine the same goes for you. I know you mean well by what you are sharing with me so let’s continue on…
T: I implore you to go to the Gospel of John or the book of Romans and read it prayerfully.
J: Implore? I don’t need to be saved. I am ok with myself..yeah sure sometimes I do things I don’t like but that’s the way it goes…sometimes I do things I really like…I don’t pray…what would I say…God…make your Will better? This writing and your writing in response to this …if there is one and even if there isn’t one…is all God’s Will.
T: Those two books deal with man's biggest problem which is sin.
J: Do you see how easy the problem is solved by just letting go of “your” idea of sin (missing the mark). Maybe the biggest sin…is the invention of sin…are you going to go tell a lion the 10 commandments? Make sure he isn’t hungry before you do.
You are as much an animal as the Lion…actually the lion is probably more intelligent than us because he doesn’t talk so much and just lives his life…the life of a Lion…he isn’t going around telling other lions how to be lions and you don’t need anyone to tell you how to be you.
T: In 2003 I had it all, houses, money, health, kids, and a great wife.
J: And you still do. So what changed?
T: There was no reason other than God revealing my sin too me through His Word to become a Christian. The Bible also claims to be a "Living Book,"
J: Yes…be the book…your life is your Life’s Work…Jesus isn’t a bad role model from what I can tell and neither is Santa Claus if you need a role model but eventually you will want to be the Role Model…not an imitation of one…just one. The only reason I am even talking about all this with you is because it doesn’t seem like you are Living but that you are preaching.
Relax and let That which you have allowed into you… to reveal itSelf to you…then it won’t be a book of words (god if I could give you a gift it would be to live without the book for a week…or a month…or a year and see what “God” has to reveal to you…not what was revealed to 12 other people or how many there were … but to you directly…through you… then you can share that and be a Living Book.
T: Hebrews 4:12 teaches that God's Word when spoken to our hearts cuts right to the soul, revealing sin and encouraging us to run to Jesus Christ for salvation.
J: Yes…you don’t have far to go…actually any movement in any direction is away from Christ Consciousness…because you are in It…it is not a body or a man or a woman…it is what this world/universe and everything imaginable is In…so go to it…in the quiet of your own Being and let it show yourself to you.
T: I wrote up a brochure regarding Jesus' resurrection, I will post it immediately after sending this.
J: Ok…If you wrote it then I would like to read it.
T: I would love to talk more. I know your hurting, God never promises that this life will not hurt but He does promise that if you give your life to Jesus He will carry you through those times.
J: Life has given me the willingness to have my heartbroken and it is broken and I don’t try to fix it…if I did I would no longer feel M or my Mom or my Dad so that pain…is beautiful but it doesn’t hurt like you may be thinking it hurts. And I have been carried…always and all ways.
T: NEVER will you ever hear a genuine Christian testify that this is not a fact.
J: You know one of the things that seems to appear a lot in this life…is when I hear someone say, Never to something…it’s like the cosmic joke on oneself that it gets proved…Never and Always…two words to pay attention too. Life is not about certainty…it’s about rainbows.
I have a favorite saying by this guy Stuart Wilde he says in his British accent “We try to be secure in a world that is intrinsically insecure.” I’ve always liked that saying.
T: God's gift is freely given.
J: Then why do you keep saying I have to do something to get it?
T: Let's talk some more. We have a lot of memories and I appreciate the love you had for my best friend. I truly love him and miss him.
J: Yes I know you do…but he would probably be pissing you off right now cause he wasn’t so fond of Bible Thumpers and always gave a hard time to the Mormon’s and Jehovah’s Witnesses…and he did “miss the Mark” (pun intended…hopefully we can still laugh and play in God’s Playground) quite often…as a matter of fact he is one of the biggest culprits in my not taking “sin” seriously…that he showed me to live life while we have it and that everything is taken care of…there is nothing to worry about (but worry is fine if you like to do it) and that it is very short…and we only have so much time to say “I Love You.” Which I do …I love you.
T: I am rejoicing in my salvation. God made Christ real to me through the pages of Scripture.
Come up with some facts concerning the Scriptures that they're not reliable. I know it would be terrible for you to think that every word and deed you've ever done will be held against you but I came to realize that not just by the Word of God but by the Spirit, creating new life in me and love for Christ, a risen Christ.
Try to refute the resurrection, you can't do it. The evidence is abundant; people don't want the truth because they're spiritually dead in sin. They hate the thought of heaven and Christ because by nature people hate their Creator.
Jesus calls people to repent of sin and believe upon Him and He will give you eternal life freely. I am not burdened to follow Jesus I am in love with my Savior! I love serving Him, I love teaching people about Him, and love giving them a living hope because He rose they too are guaranteed to live also.
I am praying God softens your heart to His truths. By conscience and creation God exists and His goodness and justice will see to it that sin has to be paid for. You can trust Him for salvation or meet God all alone which you will never stand a chance. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believes upon Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world but that through Him the world might be saved," John 3:17.
J: And yet it sounds like you are threatening me with condemnation even though you say his son came to save the world...and what did the world do to the savior...it supposedly put him on a cross and hammered nails into his hands and feet and put thorns around his head...this is the gift that the world gave to it's savior, the one that came with all the good news...those same people are still here...they couldn't hear Jesus if he was typing words to them saying there is nothing to forgive...you are already free...the only reason you think you or anyone else is not free/saved is because you think you are not free/saved...it's like when you tie an elephant to a chain after a while ... you can remove the chain but it will still stay there because it believes it is still chained. So you just leave the elephant alone and if it ever wants to see that there is no chain around it's ankle...just come say "hello."
You know the story of the resurrection is a great way to cover up the murder of god's son...all they had to do was write into the story that he survived their butchery and then they were given 2000 years of controlling the masses in fear that not only if they shared that the Light that the Son of God Revealed to them was in them...if they revealed this...they would be nailed to a cross until they died and then only if they repent for their sins (which didn't seem to appear in the story until after he was murdered) would they get to go to this "heaven" that only the good people go to...and only the people that are good...get to say who is good...no wonder those that have seen the Light have been so afraid to share it.
I went through years of fear before the willingness to Speak in spite of fear appeared. I wasn't afraid of god or Jesus I was afraid of people in this world...in Religion...who would do anything to shut up those that would speak about the Light/God whatever you want to call It...all you had to do was look at what was done to Jesus as proof of why you wouldn't want to say anything in this world.
You tell me that you know about religion and the bible...did the pope release that information to you directly? Come on...my mother was in the convent for 17 years...she was married to a Religion ... I am not saying there are all bad people in religion but there are very misled people in it...it's like you have to unlearn all these things that you have been fed because they hide the True Experience of who you Are.
The biggest cult in the world besides the Cult of Society is the Cult of Religion "Christianity, Catholism, Mormonism, Judaism, Buddhism, and ity/ism that you can think of that uses dogma instead of Direct Experience to breed fear into children and family and friends. 500 maybe 1000 years from now...someone will be reading about this time in history as another "dark ages." Wait maybe that is me reading it NOW :o( :o)
T: You said, "You know the story of the resurrection is a great way to cover up the murder of god's son...all they had to do was write into the story that he survived their butchery and then they were given 2000 years of controlling the masses in fear that not only if they shared that the Light that the Son of God Revealed to them was in them...if they revealed this...they would be nailed to a cross until they died and then only if they repent for their sins (which didn't seem to appear in the story until after he was murdered) would they get to go to this "heaven" that only the good people go to."
It is hard to follow your train of thought. How could the resurrection cover up a murder that resulted from the very thing they were preaching?
J: They did this by saying that he didn’t die…that he lived and so it covered up that they murdered him…it turned the focus onto the supposed “life after” which no one can prove wrong because you would have to die to prove it and then you wouldn’t be here…just like Jesus “the man” is not here and all these people have been waiting for 2000 years for him to reappear. You don’t have to worship anyone to know who you Are…you don’t have to wait for someone to come from the sky to tell you that you are just like where he is Pointing.
The Thing with people in religion is that the mind becomes so closed off to there being any other way to see anything. That even if the “savior” they were speaking of came back…they would destroy him because he wasn’t saying it the way they read it in some book that is supposedly written about him. These are very easy things to look at if you are willing to just have the slightest break in your story. Really how would you know if he came? What if he is coming through me to tell you…”You misunderstood…you missed the mark…but don’t worry man…cause all I was saying all along is that…you are the Love that you are seeking from me.” You don’t have to wait for me to come in another body cause I have and you haven’t recognized me…no problem…but relax you haven’t done anything wrong and you can tell me all day and all night now many wrong things you have done and I will wipe them clean for you and give you a new page to write on. I love you as I always have (yes we don’t like the word always and always (there it is again) will
T: The Apostles preached the resurrection throughout the first century.
J: That is a very long time ago for nothing to have changed.
T: They died a martyrs death because they claimed to have seen the resurrected Christ.
J: They died because they were killed by other humans and the humans that killed them got to tell any kind of story they wanted to about them…because they weren’t there to say otherwise they were dead.
At the time they say Jesus was killed…he was on a cross with hundreds of other men…and hundreds of other men died the same horrible death that he did…maybe the saving grace is that he ended people getting put on crosses (hopefully we don’t bring that way to kill people back).
T: The Jews were waiting for their King for a long time and He came and they killed Him.
J: And how will you do it differently? I would really like to know…since Jesus supposedly didn’t have a religion (and wouldn’t have one now)…how will you know that he isn’t a blasphemous rebel today just like he was back then? How do you know that the Christians’ wouldn’t kill Jesus in Jesus’ name? You might really like to read the book by Richard Back it’s called “Illusions” and it is a really good story about what it might be like if Jesus returned to the world today. It’s actually is in my top 10 of all time favorite books. Here is a link to it at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusions_(Bach_novel).
And I do know why you are afraid to look…the whole religion is set up so that you don’t look…you don’t question…but why is it set up like that? Are you at least willing to look at that …why would they set it up to make you think that someone like a friend of yours…Me…is someone to watch out for…it actually turns brother against brother in Jesus’ name…that is so crazy…Jesus was about bringing people together from what I understand not breeding fear of your friends. And believe me I have lost friends to their belief in Jesus…when he was a preacher of love and acceptance. I don’t know why people do not want to see this…accept that they are afraid to stand alone in the world and just be who they are…with no one to blame and no one to forgive them…to just live their life and enjoy it cause it will be over soon.
T: Not because it was their plan to do it but because it was God's plan. God planned that Christ would come and suffer sin's penalty which is suffering and death. I don't believe any of the religions you mentioned are supported by Scripture to be correct.
J: I am not going to get into which book says what in the best way…all I am going to say to you is it is… all God’s Plan…even our conversation right now and if there is devil or a satan well he is in god…it’s all in God…there is no out of God and so you can just sit back relax…have a beer put your feet up cause it is all taken care of. Or you can spend your time being afraid and worrying that the world is going to end (which even if it is 5 billion years from now…eventually the world will end…this planet is no different from any other planet in that regard). So float on :o)
T: Somebody indoctrinated you into humanism or whatever you believe in. You must have a cause for the complexity of life, the conscience, and all of creation itself.
J: I was Saved from believing in believing :o) Why must I have a cause?
T: I didn't become a Christian to find something to lean on or cling to, I came to Christ because of my sin.
J: Ok…then now that you are sinless…what is your big concern? Why are you so afraid…not just for yourself but for others? Why do you need the words of people that have been dead for thousands of years to live your life…sounds like clinging and leaning to me…cause if you actually knew it … you wouldn’t need anyone else’s words…you would speak from your own Heart…not the mind…that has to understand what it is speaking about … but from the Love that you Are.
T: I was just like you, a skeptic, no one has the answers.
J: You seem to speak like you have all the answers.
T: You have a choice to make and you seem to have made it with no room for humbling yourself before God to find the truth.
J: The Truth is not found … because it is not lost … overlooked yes … lost no … if all is God’s Will … which it is … then humbling happens and Truth appears…but It cannot be described with words nor shared through books …yet it can be Known and then one’s life is used (as it always is used) to Point others to who they already Are….but are just overlooking their Self.
T: You think you have found truth, good for you, I know I have and I want to share it with everyone.
J: Truth is not found…it is Revealed. We are sharing it with everyOne right now :o)
T: I have never been happier in my life and I know I will give account to God.
J: I bet you will be even happier when you are not using words of fear and guilt and sin to share God but Love. And you are Love so it’s just the words that could use some updating.
T: Remember this, the Bible is not a history book or a science book though it is accurate in all these areas where it discusses these issues. It is a book of redemption. God's salvation plan for creation to new-creation. God did revel himself through men who wrote, not by their own interpretation, no, men wrote as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
J: Remember this… don’t forget to remember who you Are. (It’s been 2000 years and although there is infinite patience…does there have to be? :o)